Ep #34: Dad Talk with a Pro with Tommy Geary
episode summary
Today on the podcast we’re talking about Dads. (Yep, you read that right! 🤣)
I invited my friend and fellow coach Tommy Geary (who coaches overwhelmed and stressed out Dads) to be a guest expert today in an effort to help us understand the unique pressures that men face.
We dig into the challenges faced by fathers and the importance of their self care. Tommy explains the pressure men feel to be good providers and fathers simultaneously, the impact of that pressure on their mental health, and ways to navigate the journey of fatherhood successfully.
By seeking support, managing anger, and finding balance, dads can embrace the joys of fatherhood while nurturing their own well-being.
ALSO! Tommy and I had an in depth conversation about adoption (we each have 2 adopted children) which will come out later this month in support of National Adoption Month. 💗
Featured on the Show
Tommy G Coaching
Durable Dad podcast
Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less by Greg McKeown
For the full show notes and transcript, head over here.
If you are sick and tired of feeling overwhelmed, I can help. I coach clients 1 on 1 on how to create a more calm, relaxing, intentional life. The first step is to set up a complimentary discovery session right here.
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Thank you for listening. If you love the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review. 💗
CHAPTERS:
5:06 - Coaching Men
6:58 - Managing Anger
15:26 - Setting the Tone for the Family
22:04 - Starting Small
listen to the episode:
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Michelle: 0:04
Hey, I'm Michelle Gauthier and you're listening to the Overwhelmed Working Woman podcast. Hey friends, thanks for joining today. This is part one of an interview with my friend and fellow coach, Tommy Geary. On this particular episode, we're going to be talking about what he does, which is to help men. He helps overwhelmed dads, like I help overwhelmed moms, and he's going to talk about what he does with his clients. If you feel like there's a man in your life who might need to do some coaching like this, he talks about the best approach for that and, of course, in the show notes we'll leave you all the links about where to get on his mailing list or to find out more about coaching with him. There is a second part of the episode that's going to be shared separately, where he and I end up talking for like 20 minutes about adoption. We both have adopted kids. He and his wife have two daughters and we found out as we were doing the episode that they adopted their kids through the same agency that we adopted our kids through, and we have a fun and interesting discussion all about adoption. I'm making that a separate episode in case that's something that you don't have interest in or you don't want to listen to, but if you do, stay tuned for part two, but for now I just want to introduce part one, which is Tommy Geary. He is the host of the Durable Dad podcast and you will hear all about him and his coaching on this episode. Thanks for tuning in! Alright, so tell us a little bit about yourself. No pressure, but you're only the second man ever to be on this podcast.
Tommy: 1:42
Wow, I feel like I get that a lot. I'm like you're the first male guest that I've had and I like that. That's fun.
Michelle: 1:51
Okay, okay, good. Well, I'm wondering how you became a coach. Tell us a little bit about your life before that, kind of what got you to this point where you're helping other men dads make a better life for themselves.
Tommy: 2:05
Yeah, I have been a coach now like an official coach, for the last three years and we've been running our business since then and coaching dads, I think probably similar to you. It was my story for a while, like, I had a really awesome experience in my twenties and my early thirties. I think I had life figured out. My wife and I, like, had an awesome marriage. I had a great job and it was a really cool job. It paid well, it was in the ski industry, and then I became a dad and a lot of those I don't know if it's identities or not, but just that free feeling in life left and responsibility kicked in. I thought I was a pretty responsible adult, I was managing my money well and I had a marriage and I was a good husband. But then, boom, that hits you, smack in the face and it brought up a lot - just questioning a lot, for me. I think it's different with every dad. For me it became oh my gosh, I'm stuck in this corporate career and now I'm stuck here because I'm a dad and I can't go and make changes and do anything for myself because I have to pay the bills and I have to have health insurance and all that. So that became my journey leaving my corporate career and I didn't go right into life coaching. My wife and I ran a marketing agency together, a creative agency. I think that was my first big professionally - as a dad - jump was to leave my corporate job. And as we did it and we ran the business together and it was like, oh holy shit, anything's possible. And then we wanted to up it again because we loved having our own business and we wanted to help a little bit more. We didn't know exactly what help was going to look like, but we had both had coaches. My wife is a coach and we were like well, we could create something that can help. And I went and got certified. And when I went and got certified I didn't know I was going to be coaching dads. But as soon as I started posting on social, dudes were reaching out to me and like, oh man, that's so cool what you're doing and not necessarily ready to dive in. But I actually just had someone - and this is so applicable to guys, but I think it's women too - someone was telling me like the rule of three, so someone's not going to go and hire a coach until they talk about it with you at least three times. So, like the first time, they're like, oh, it's cool what you're doing and they're interested in. The second time is maybe like, yeah, coaching is not really for me, but I know this dude that would really need a coach, and that's how it was for me too. It's hard to ask for help as a guy, and yeah, and so now that's where I'm at. I'm working with dads from all over the place, helping them get rid of the pressure so they can be an awesome dad and have an awesome life.
Michelle: 5:06
Yeah, let's get into it. So I know you said you coach men and I think there was a clue in there when you said as soon as I had a child, I felt just so much responsibility, like I have to make money and support these people. And I coach women, as you know, I've coached the occasional man, and the biggest difference in my experience is that there's some sort of pressure on men that comes societally or I don't know where it comes from, but I have this tiny bit of experience with it and I just feel like men have whole different pressures. So tell us about that. Maybe I'm wrong.
Tommy: 5:41
I don't think you're - I mean I don't know if it's totally different, because I've coached women when I contracted for a coaching company, a lot. And there is, I think, underneath all of it, like I don't know, I'm not going to stay here very long is I'm not a good dad and underneath the moms, a lot is I'm not being a good mom. So above that is the pressure to be a good dad and to be a good man and sometimes I think it's confusing what the heck that means. There's an innate, I believe, desire for a man to want to provide for his family. Like there's something that's honorable about sacrificing yourself and your work, going towards your family and giving them the life that you want and leaning into that is like awesome and really powerful and really motivating. But if we are all in on that and sacrifice all of ourselves and then we tell ourselves we're not doing a good job, that's when, like, the pressure really piles on and then it kind of debilitates us and we don't be that dad that we want to be.
Michelle: 6:51
Yeah, what happens just in general when you or your clients get too much pressure like that?
Tommy: 6:58
Well, I think it, you know, energetically it wears on us. And then when we're worn out or stressed out and when we stay in this stressed state trying to fix everything, I think the main thing that dudes run into is they work hard all day and then they come home and there's this part of them that gets angry. And they don't want to be angry, they're just spent. They've been at work all day working hard. They've probably been using a lot of patience figuring out how to manage the people that they work with and who worked for them. And then they get home and when they want to let their guard down, all of a sudden they have to parent and they have to communicate with their wife, and if things don't go their way, they want to try to control the situation. And dudes' anger - anger in men is really good at controlling the situation. If you want someone to shut up and you yell really loud at them, they're probably going to shut up, unless it's like a guy and a guy, and then it might go to fists. So then that creates this habit of anger working. Oh, anger works. So my brain's like I'm going to use it again. I'm going to use it again, but it wears out. One we don't want to act that way and we start shaming ourselves and it just kind of perpetuates that anger. And then two, like one of the guys I was working with, he yelled at his younger daughter and his older daughter said, "oh, don't worry about it, dad just yells sometimes. And he was like oh, one, that's like who I've become the dad that yells. And two, it doesn't even control the situation like I wanted it to and like it used to. So anger, I think, is really what happens with this. Yeah, the downside is a lot of dudes are frustrated, and that happens with dads a lot Like I've never been an angry guy, I've never had an anger problem in my life, and then all of a sudden I'm a dad and I put this responsibility on my shoulders and I have this pressure and I'm flipping out more than I want to and I don't have the patience at home. And well, I'll stop there for now.
Michelle: 9:06
No, that's good, I was just going to ask you. So then what happens? So if you're coaching somebody and that feels like the normal trajectory, where they're frustrated and they find themselves getting angry at home, then what do you do? How do you help them get out of that?
Tommy: 9:22
Well, we talk about the desire to be a better dad and what that means, because the generation that's older than us worked and was that provider for the most part. I mean it's not an all or nothing thing, but how it was portrayed to us was a dad works hard, he provides for the family and then he comes home and he shuts down, right, he watches TV. Maybe he's the disciplinarian, maybe he has a couple beers, he's kind of checked out, he's not into the parenting and he's not into creating like an amazing relationship with his wife where we're making parenting decisions together. And there's that desire for men these days, I think, is this like softer parenting side? We just weren't taught that right. So the default becomes anger and they're getting angry more than they want. And they've heard about this - like, I want to be emotionally connected to my kid, but what the hell does that mean? Oh, we have to co-regulate our emotions. I hear that if I'm angry then it's more likely that my kid's going to be angry. Great, but what the heck am I supposed to do with my anger? And I have this one course that's called Stop Losing your Temper. It shows up differently for everybody, but I think two things. One: anger is not a problem and I think that separating our anger emotion from our actions of yelling or grabbing or throwing or whatever is very important. The emotion of anger, the energy of tightness, tight jaw clenched fists, that is okay. That anger is an evolutionary thing and it's defending something and it's there for a reason, that's okay. That's not our fault. We don't have to be like neutralizing that a little, opening up to that. The actions, those are our responsibility. What we do with that anger, that's the responsibility of a dad. So I frame it up that way and separate the two out when we can get in touch with what that anger feels like and what it feels like as it bubbles up, and open up to it a little bit. It simmers it a little bit. We don't go from zero to 100. We don't pop off on a whim. Yeah, that's definitely the first part.
Michelle: 11:42
Okay, that makes sense. So that course that you mentioned, is that something that you would recommend as a starting point if someone's getting into following you, or something like that?
Tommy: 11:55
Yeah, it's not evergreen yet. I just ran the first beta group in August and it was a six-week course and it went awesome. The guys were so great in it and so receptive to the teaching and the work and the conversations. Just that it was a group course I know you have a group opening up pretty soon. Is your first group that you're opening. Yes, yeah, man, the group work is so powerful. So, for your listeners, if you haven't signed up for Michelle's group, or if it's too late, get into our next group, because hearing from people that are in similar situations and knowing you're not alone and that connection is very I don't know there's a relief or something like that when you're like oh, I'm not the only one.
Michelle: 12:38
Yes, I think it's just. I'm not alone. Yes, exactly, I'm not the only one who feels like a jerk when I get mad at my kids or whatever it is.
Tommy: 12:47
Yeah, so as far as that course goes, I think I'm going to launch it again in January and have it be a live one, again. I was thinking about just making it online, but I think the guys seeing each other is really big. So, yes, totally look into that.
Michelle: 13:01
Okay, so they should just get on your mailing list then, and you'll that way they'll know when it's available.
Tommy: 13:08
Yeah and yeah, if you go to my website - which for the overwhelmed working moms, my freebie that you can grab right there is four steps to eliminate overwhelm. So that's overwhelmed, spinning, scattered. It's a quick four step process and then you're on my email list and you'll get notifications for the courses and everything like that.
Michelle: 13:29
Okay, okay. I have a feeling a lot of the listeners are thinking like I want to tell my husband about this right now. Do you get a lot of clients, do you know, because their wife or their family suggests that they go talk to someone, or do they just come to you? How does that work?
Tommy: 13:44
Yeah, definitely referrals. A lot of the dudes that I work with are, you know, I started to work with their friends, their colleagues, their leaders. And then, yes, a lot of the guys that I work with have wives that have had a coach or are coaches, and so this is kind of how I found coaching. My wife had a coach first and I kind of saw from the outside and then, when it was time for me to do some work on myself, I was like, oh, that coaching thing was pretty cool, it like worked in business, it worked in her personal life. So I think a lot of guys will see that - like they'll see the coaching have an impact on their wife and then they'll come and get coached. You have to want to get coached. I've had a slight, like I think two times, guys have hopped on the call and just been like, well, my wife set this call up for me and I'm like, all right, well, let's, let's coach. And usually if they don't, if they're not open to it, then it's not going to work. And I think that's what it's good to hear for women is that I just think that women can lead by example so much in a relationship. They do the work on themselves. They start managing their emotions and not forcing their husbands to do things or making their husbands' actions mean something about them and you can pepper in, "hey, listen to the durable dad podcast or like things like that, but don't you know, I'm sure you coach them right. Like, you can have expectations, you can offer things, but don't like hold them to it. If they don't do it, they don't do it, they're not ready.
Michelle: 15:21
Yes, exactly, and I'm sitting here vigorously shaking my head, which no one can see, but not- Nodding your head. Yes, yes, yeah, nodding my head, not shaking my head, I'm in agreement, but I think one of the biggest things that I get is, you know, women who are feeling frustrated with their husband and they want to fix him or that situation, and it is always exactly as you said, which is, let's just work on the things you can control, which is you, and I would swear I don't have real data on this, but it's like almost 100% of the time, the whole family seems to feel better when the mom feels better, you know, when the mom's taking care of herself, and is managing her emotions better. I just think that a lot of times, the moms and the dads too, I'm sure set the tone for the family and I think it inspires husbands to go and maybe get a coach or talk to someone when they've been hesitant to do so.
Tommy: 16:16
Yeah, it's powerful, Whether it's the mom or the dad. I think there's some saying or something that if a boat's sinking and one person keeps their composure, the boat has a chance of making it.
Michelle: 16:32
Yes, that's great. I've never heard that. That's awesome.
Tommy: 16:36
The co-regulation, you can keep your nervous system in check, calm, balanced, that emanates through the rest of the house.
Michelle: 16:45
Yeah, I absolutely love that. That's so great. Tell me about some of your favorite results. We're at the end of coaching. If you see a guy doing this thing or feeling this way or whatever, what are the things that really make you feel like, yes, they did it, they made the change.
Tommy: 17:00
Yeah, well, one thing we just kind of touched on, one guy said after like just like six sessions he was just like the house just feels so much more chill lately. Perfect, what a great win.
Michelle: 17:16
Yes, what more could you ask for than that? That's amazing.
Tommy: 17:23
And man, the biggest wins, I think, are watching guys - yeah, the chillness, the I haven't yelled at my kids in 30 days. And then the ones that really get me are the ones where he's like, "you know, last night I was just laying, we were out in the pool and my daughter really wanted to go inside and it was bedtime. I didn't want to argue so we just like sat there together and it got dark and we looked at the stars and she was five and she's only five and I was just thinking how many opportunities am I going to get like this? And the house was dirty and I had so much to do at work, but I just stayed there for a couple minutes and enjoyed it and it's like hell, yeah, like that opens my heart up and that. Like yeah, because it's the small moments, like that.
Michelle: 18:11
Exactly, it's the truly being present in the moment that you're in and realizing this is the most important place for me to be right now.
Tommy: 18:20
Yeah, not easy to remember when we go, go, go all the time. This one guy sent me a video. He was like I think I don't know what he said, like I'm letting loose or something like that. But he sent me a video. His wife took the video of him dancing around the kitchen with a wig on and his two daughters like all laughing and everything like that. And you know it's not I don't know. Those are the kinds of results I like.
Michelle: 18:48
Yes, exactly, because from that place you can do anything. Like once you have that relationship with your family and your spouse and you feel good, like you're starting from a home base that feels calm and chill, as he said. That's just awesome, that's great.
Tommy: 19:04
And I want to say the precursor to that, to those kinds of results, is a guy starting to take care of himself. That's a big hurdle for guys and moms. You can hear the put your mask on first before you put your kids mask on. Take care of yourself and then you can take care of everyone else better. Fill your cup up. The information's out there and it's really difficult to put into practice if you haven't and I just believe so much in that, like whether it's an anger issue or it's a shutting down issue and feeling like lethargic and not excited about life - filling up your cup with some energy, with some excitement, with some love, then you're able to give it out more.
Michelle: 19:56
Yeah. So what does that look like, you know, for a man who's just really starting to take care of himself? Like, what kinds of things would we see him doing?
Tommy: 20:05
With coaching we wear different hats. If we're pure coaching, it's you know what's important to you, what would make you feel excited. And if one guy's like setting up this new computer server that's been sitting on my desk for the last three weeks that I want to geek out on - that wouldn't have come up in my head, I wouldn't have been like, "that self care. But that you know, working with your hands and putting together a project is sometimes that for guys. I mean exercise, right, like just moving your body, whether it's running or yoga or taking walks. Time for yourself. I mean this Stop Losing Your Temper course, the first thing we did for the week was just to set a timer for 10 minutes and lay there, just lay down, and you don't have to meditate, you don't have to focus on your breathing, just lay down for 10 minutes whenever in your day, and that like that's self care enough. We don't give ourselves a break. So yeah, I think those are the big ones.
Michelle: 21:12
Yeah, that's a lot. That's a lot of good options.
Tommy: 21:14
But you tell someone to take a break in the middle of their day and go walk for 30 minutes, like it's something that I know and it's like ingrained in me now, but it took a while. It's like a guilt factor that I should be doing something else. That work can't wait. I have so much to do. But you take that walk for 30 minutes and clear your head. You're going to be more productive when you get back.
Michelle: 21:36
For sure happier, in my case. Yeah, absolutely so true, okay, last question, and then I'll give you a chance in case I forgot to ask you anything. But is there just a number one piece of advice? Because, like you said, coaching is a lot of asking questions and helping people with what they want to do. But is there a piece of advice that you give your clients or your guy friends, just as a general rule, something that you find yourself saying over and over?
Tommy: 22:04
It's probably the fill your cup up and not, you know, maybe in that term and you know what I'll back up: start small, like small changes go a long way. So, whatever it is that your day to day looks like right now, if there's something that you're discontent with or there's a behavior you want to change, we don't have to get it all figured out today. Just do one thing different, take a five minute break.
Michelle: 22:37
That's so good, because that's what causes paralysis, I think. When you just think of all the things that you'd have to do to get your life the way you want it, and then it's just, it becomes too much. That is great. That is great. Mine with women is definitely they'll say I just feel like I can't do it all, and I always say you can't. It's true, you can't. So just drop that myth, let that go. Just know that it's impossible and stop trying. It's like we keep banging our head against the wall. So I feel like yours is a similar version of that. Like, just start with the one little thing.
Tommy: 23:09
Yeah, yours is - have you read Essentialism? No, Greg McKeown, yeah, that's his thing. The societal belief that we need to get it all done. It's like yeah, that's him. That's not going to happen, it's impossible. So you're setting yourself up for failure there.
Michelle: 23:27
So just go ahead and let that go. Yes, yeah, it was just. I talked about this in last week or two weeks ago or something on the podcast, but it was some of Brene Brown's work where she was talking about what causes shame in men versus women, and men's was like the inability to provide. It was all about being a provider and being seen as like a man, a manly man, but at the same time, be soft and have feelings and be loving, but be a man, you know. And it's just confusing and they contradict each other. And the ones for women are like you have to be able to do it all and make it look easy, like you can't sweat while you're doing it all. You have to make it look easy. And so, in both cases, for men and for women, when you don't do that, then you feel shame. And when you feel shame, you feel like something's actually wrong with you and then you isolate and all the things that come from there. So, yeah, I agree, it's like what? What rule are we complying with? I did not sign a contract to play this game.
Tommy: 24:26
Yeah.
Michelle: 24:26
And we're trying to comply with this rule that I don't know who made up and nobody would you know, nobody will say they were the one who made up that rule. So let's just quit.
Tommy: 24:35
We've got to be aware of the game we're playing, and if it's even the game we want to play, or if the rules are fair.
Michelle: 24:42
Yes, yes, exactly, okay. Well, last, if people are listening and they want to send their husbands to you, we talked about the freebie that they can get on your website. We talked about your class that's going to start again in January. Are you offering one on one coaching right now?
Tommy: 24:58
Yeah, I have a couple of slots open for one on one coaching and yeah, one on one coaching has really been like the powerful part of my coaching and really what I've been loving. And yeah, I would just say, if your husbands or brother or friend or whatever is interested in mindset work and interested in learning more about how to regulate emotions and, yeah, just life in general. Durable Dad podcast, check out the podcast. It's short episodes, which dudes really like. At least I've been getting oh, similar to your episode. They're just short.
Michelle: 25:34
Yeah, yeah, except for this one.
Tommy: 25:36
Yeah, sorry, yeah, Durable Dad podcast. Check it out or go for that freebie on the website, yeah.
Michelle: 25:45
Okay, awesome. And the last thing I want to say about you is that you know, reading on your website and just getting to know you a little bit, I think men are hesitant to - tell me if I'm wrong -, but I think it's harder for them to be vulnerable or ask for help or those kinds of things. And I think it's awesome how you say on your website like I played college football, I was a big skier, I was like a dudes dude and you still are. That's what I think is so appealing about you is that you will be relatable to someone who feels like that and I'm just offering that as a compliment that you are so vulnerable and great at talking about coaching things, but I think that you appeal to just like the every man.
Tommy: 26:23
Oh, thanks, I appreciate that.
Michelle: 26:25
Yeah, yeah, okay. Well, please send me that article. I want to include it and that was a great episode. Thank you so much. I appreciate your time.
Tommy: 26:34
Yeah, it's always awesome talking to you, Michelle.
Michelle: 26:36
Yeah, you too Talk to you soon.
Tommy: 26:38
All right See you, see you.
Michelle: 26:42
Thank you for listening to the Overwhelmed Working Woman podcast. If you want to learn more about my work, head over to my website at michellegauthier. com. See you next week.
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